Violence on the streets

There was a young man who was beaten very badly last night around 1am in the alley by the Scoop Bar. Two individuals together beat up a young man that was on a scooter and fled the scene when two others saw it was happening, ran in that direction while calling 911. The assailants fled in separate directions. Both were wearing hooded sweatshirts. The young man who was beaten was not breathing and had no pulse when found. The police arrived and by standers helped perform cpr. This young man was in very bad condition as he lay in a large pool of blood and a severely mangled face. I am unsure if he survived. The ambulance took some time to arrive and the police man said it was because there had been two other assaults that night.

All this happens and there is nothing in the paper. Nothing even in the police reports yet...I am sure there will be tomorrow. Is Bozeman trying to keep its beautiful image by not reporting such acts of violence as young people are beat, possibly to death, on the streets? This seems to be something that has been going on for sometime and has never been brought to attention as far as I know. This occurs many more times than the public ever knows about, as a friend of mine was jumped two years ago and had to have facial reconstruction. If they are going to keep these acts out of the public eye, is there some way to warm and teach people to stay out of harms way? Yes, I realize he was out at 1 am at bar, but that still doesn't mean he deserved to be beaten almost to death (or possibly death...I haven't heard anything whether he survived or not)?
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location: DowntownBozeman, M.t.
posted on Wed, Sep 17, 2008 01:38 PM
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still waiting for an answer bytiredofbeingjudged September 17, 2008 (1 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
accusations that the chronicle is trying to give bozeman a squeeky-clean image have come up before..
i wonder if they (either the chronicle or the police) are trying to keep 'copycats' at bay. you know, some people that are out looking for trouble might think it would be cool if they did something SO heinous, it made the front page?
If it happened in the middle of the night. . . bysouthward September 17, 2008 (1 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
then today's paper was at print already. Same with the Hot Springs fire. The morning news had it, but it took the paper an extra day because of logistics. No idea if it will be part of a smokescreen, I guess we'll see tomorrow. They covered pretty thoroughly when that guy was beaten downtown a while ago, also the big murder a couple summers back, so I'm leaning toward the timing explanation.

One of the nice things about the Billings Gazette actually putting all their content on the website is they do live updates on such stories through the day.

Most of all, I hope the young man will be okay.
RE: If it happened in the middle of the night. . . byPooterman September 19, 2008 (1 votes) (report abuse)
we had a breaking news report online regarding the fire and are trying to increase that type of delivery with events like that. The web allows for that, print does not.
RE: If it happened in the middle of the night. . . bysouthward September 20, 2008 (0 votes) (report abuse)
Good to know. Thanks for the tip.
Yes I believe so... bycowgirlmedic September 17, 2008 (1 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
The Chronicle prints only the pretty. This isn't as serious of a situation, but I parked my vehicle over off of Rouse and it was vandalized last year. My windows were busted out, but everything was in my vehicle (luckily). Turns out that there was a rash of vandalism in that area. Was it posted in the paper? No. Was it on the radio? No. Instead, I get to find out MYSELF when my own personal vehicle is messed up by word from the Bozeman PD.

This doesn't surprise me at all. Hope the guy is okay.
Reason for CCW bydanie006 September 17, 2008 (1 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
All the more reason why I have a concealed carry permit.
Reasons byPRDPOWIFE September 17, 2008 (1 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
As a former employee of the Chronicle, I can say on their defense, that the paper is typically already printed and headed out to many of your houses by the time this assault occurred. I know the news room managing editor as a man with good intregrity and good intentions for the paper in reporting acurately and timely. Now, working on the other end of the spectrum and being involved in law enforcement myself, I know that many times with these cases, the agency cannot give out much information to protect not only the victim, but for the case itself. It is not that the law enforcement does not want the public to know these things, it is in many cases, the only information, legally, they can give out. Hopefully, we will hear about it tomorrow and most importantly, justice will be served.
More reason to be armed bygeneric September 17, 2008 (0 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Bozeman's not the nice little town that I grew up in any more. I also have a concealed carry permit, frequent those bar's(although not that late), and am usually in posssesion of a firearm.
RE: More reason to be armed bydanie006 September 17, 2008 (2 votes) (report abuse)
Hey Generic - It is illegal in the state of Montana to carry a firearm while you're at the bar. Discovered, brandished or fired and you'll wind up in the pokey.
RE: More reason to be armed bycowgirlmedic September 18, 2008 (2 votes) (report abuse)
Danies right...be careful or you will lose your permit quicker than you can say it.
Update bycirecire September 17, 2008 (1 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
The officer that was on call last night said the young man was flown to Billings to the trauma center and was still alive as of this evening. Good to know, although there was no inclination to the fact that he would survive. Lets keep him in our thoughts and hope they catch the assailants.

Thanks for every ones insight. I understand the logistics of the paper and the law enforcement, I just hope that people can be made aware what is going on in this "nice little town" and that we can help in some way curb this violence. There has got to be a way, and I hope people aren't just turning their heads and letting it go because it was some young person out at the bars and not some one of more "significance".
RE: Update bysouthward September 18, 2008 (1 votes) (report abuse)
Thank you for the update. As usual we are distracted from the important topic.
Thoughts bycwrite September 17, 2008 (2 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
I can remember when the
Chronicle was an evening paper.
The delivery service was better
then & news more timely.
Try www.montanasnewsstation.com
for additional up to the minute
reporting.
thoughts.... byPRDPOWIFE September 17, 2008 (0 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
cwrite.. I agree that the paper has gone downhill. I worked there for over 8 years recently. We were trained by the former publisher that the newspaper would not grow if we did not get that paper on the porch by the time we stated in our mission statement. We also took care of our "carriers" who were out there 7 days a week, snow, rain, holidays..etc by rewarding their customer service ie Newspaper carrier month. Now, from what I have heard, the carriers are just that..carriers to the paper. There is no incentive to give Mrs. Jone good service, so why? Not right, but to most kids and adults, in jobs, if you are not appreciated, then you will not work hard. There are a lot of good people delivering and covering the news for the paper, just seems the newspaper itself(management) has gotten away from the old time "take care of your people" motto and it truly shows
on the radio this morning bycowgirlmedic September 18, 2008 (0 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
They said the 2 that are believed to had beat up the guy are in custody. No concrete information on the medical status of him though, but yeah, that he was in Billings.

edited to add-theres an article about it on the chron homepage
Relief bycirecire September 18, 2008 (1 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
As you have all probably read in the article on the front of the paper, the assailants have been caught. No surprise they were involved with drugs. A perfect reason why people don't get involved anymore these days; your putting your own life at risk. Sounds like he was trying to discourage them from stealing a friends moped and is now fighting for his life. Unfortunately, if he does live, his life will never be the same. The way his face was mangled and the amount of time this young man lay with no pulse and not breathing, I have reason to believe he may never function properly if he does survive. My heart and thoughts go out to him and his family. So sad. Tell all your loved ones to be careful, for the streets of Bozeman are a different place now days...
RE: Relief bydanie006 September 18, 2008 (1 votes) (report abuse)
....and carry some mace, a kubuton, or a heater (except in a bar, bank, school grounds or other government buildings).

Add edit: Also, be prepared for legal/civil consequences if you are forced to act in self defense. It is not unusual to be considered guilty until proven innocent in this situation. Use common sense; do everything to avoid a self defense situation. If you find yourself in a tight spot, try to get away. If unsuccessful, shout for help and/or call 911. If pressed, defend yourself in an appropriate manner without excess, otherwise it may be misconstrued to look as if your intention was something other than self defense (although I will always aim for center mass to increase my odds of stopping the assailant).

Disclaimer: I'm not actually offering legal advice, but this is the basic stuff they teach you in CCW class. A little review never hurts.
so sad bytiredofbeingjudged September 19, 2008 (0 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
exactly the reason so many folks are reluctant to help anymore.
you try and help someone and suddenly you're the one being attacked?!
let's hope the two assailants are made an example of, and don't get to use one of those 'get out of jail free' cards.
these kind of attacks can really tear a community apart. it's the reason people stop saying 'hello' as they pass each other in the street, stop getting to know their neighbors, shut their curtains to the outside world, and consider anything beyond their yard 'none of my business.'
carry a weapon where you can byDetector Man September 19, 2008 (1 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
just an FYI for all you concealed weapons permit holders like myself. If you have a concealed weapons permit you should already know this but you are not allowed to carry a concealed weapon any where they serve or sell alcohol, on federal property, public parks, county fairgrounds, public schools or any other type of government property such as court houses, etc...

I hope the guy is OK and my prayers go out to him and his family :(
Prevention bycirecire September 19, 2008 (1 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
I agree very much with tiredofbeingjudged. Its why people walk by people who are in need...because they don't want to become the next victim. Maybe you have watched I believe it was dateline who set up a guy trying to break into a car on a public street in the day to see how many even called 911. The results, which were not good, were completely mind blowing. People just don't want to be involved. Its amazing how many people will call the police when someone is mowing at 8 in the morning, but won't do a thing when they see a possible criminal act in progress.

I am sure this young mans intent to deter these thieves (according the police report) never encompassed the thought that he may be beat beyond recognition and left to die in the street in Bozeman, Montana. Thanks to the two young men who saw something going on and decided to check it out or we would have had a homicide on the streets of Bozeman, i am almost certain. I am unaware of the all the actions between these young men, but apparently it escalated to something of savage proportions. To continue to beat someone as they lay motionless on the pavement is beyond human, and it makes me ill thinking that someone could do this to another human being. Whether this young man survives or not, he was with no pulse and not breathing for 10+ minutes along with severe destruction to his entire face. A life significantly changed, or even ruined. So sad to say the least. I too hope these assailants get the punishment they deserve and not a slap on the wrist and an invite to once again join society in a normal fashion.

All this said, and thanks for the insight on all the ccw (very interesting), I think there has got to be a way to help avoid these types of situations and their results. We need to teach our children, friends, and loved ones how to react in a situation like this and walk away without a scratch. No one should feel they have to be a "hero", but if we taught people basic skills in our schools or free classes to the public, I think it could do nothing but benefit our neighborhoods, our cities, and our state. People love Bozeman for its "small town" atmosphere, because lets face it, its a small town. I think it is our responsibility to help deter things like this, or at the least, attempt to curb things like this happening in our community.

Does anyone know of a program out there that already implements the teaching of proper public "defense" involving the stop of criminal activities? I would like to find something, or even create something with a team of individuals to provide our community and our state with to help prevent these atrocities from happening. I am sure there is something already out there...
so sad byalisha September 19, 2008 (1 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
I myself live in CA and know the 2 men that did this. It sadens me to hear that they did this. Both of them have always been great friends. Always there for you when you need them. I wish I knew if the guy whom they did this to is okay and going to live. I am with all of you on this. I don't see how someone could keep hitting someone that is lifeless. From what I have heard they were both blacked out drunk. That still doesn't excusse the fact. If anyone from the victums family reads this all of there friends and family hear in california send you our best wishes and deepest sympathy. If any one has an update on how this man is doing or what hospital he is in please send me an email
alisha.starr@yahoo.com

Sincerely,
Alisha
whaddya think? 2 years? byWalkerBozemanRanger September 24, 2008 (1 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
i bet these guys get crap prison sentences. 2 years for kingman, and maybe 6 months for the other one. and some probation. and homie with the injuries gets a life sentence of horror, trauma, disfigurement, and maybe disability.

i hope this community makes a hero out of the victim - he stood up for what was right, even his friend's (probably) worthless mo-ped. and it probably never crossed his mind that someone would lash out so violently over said mo-ped. that's the sadness here - by his action he sounds like a nice guy who was a trusting fellow, and thought it was the right thing to stand up for what you believe in. and then he nearly got killed because of it. those with honor are a dying breed, slowly being rubbed out by those with fists and guns and knives.

it's a decline of civilization, and anyone who's not paying attention to these trends and taking measures to address these creeping threats - well you should re-consider. i'm a fan of mace - no one dies. but it won't be very useful when a small gang of thugs are roaming your lawless future neighborhoods and decide that your house looks worthy of further inspection.

in the war between right and wrong, the man who took the beating is a true hero and hopefully his name will be released by his family and we can pay tribute to him for having the courage to face "the wrong". he might not be perfect himself either, in every one of his thoughts or deeds (i certainly am not), but loyalty to friends and righteousness should always be recognized.

kind wishes to his family, and is there any info on where one might direct any contributions?
standing up for paulie... byilderness September 25, 2008 (1 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
-one of the 'victim's' good friends here- sorry it's taken so long for any of us to post anything, but we've all been reeling from the incident, and taking turns driving to billings to support him and his family. His family released his name today, so I can use it to direct you to his support fund, if anyone would like to make contributions toward his medical bills and recovery.

We've set up an account in his name at Big Sky Western Bank-

the account is: For the Benefit of Paul Overby. (He's got a personal account there so please make sure you specify it's the F.B.O. account.)

Thanks so much for your comments and concerns, Paulie is recovering- but slowly. He had his second (and hopefully last) facial reconstruction surgery yesterday, and seems to have come through it well.

We- Paulie's friend and family- thank everyone for their concern and support. We look forward to the day when we can have him back in our midst- smiling and healthy and happy again.
RE: standing up for paulie... bytiredofbeingjudged September 26, 2008 (0 votes) (report abuse)
thank you so much for the update
Paul is a hero.
Why Violence? byHoudini22 September 25, 2008 (1 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
I write from outstate Montana and am a good friend of Paul's parents. When I heard about this, I was totally stupified as to why one human being would beat another. I may never fully grasp this concept. A number of lives have been forever changed: Pauls' life will certainly be altered with medical care, recovery and trust, yet he will survive as that is his spirit; the assailants who must accept the consequences for their actions and pay the price (I am not a fan of the death penalty, yet....I do wonder if this option is reasonable? , or is it more just to put the assailants thru the same punishment they dealt to Paul? , or....live their life in a world where sunlight and snowflakes are a distant memory - so many options); his family - the trauma they too live through as they watch their son go through the pain of surgeries and recovery, and his many friends who will help in every way possible.

Being familiar with the justice system, I often wonder if the victim becomes the criminal and the criminal becomes the victim. I believe it's time to stand up and change our justice system to ensure that victims' are provided what is rightfully theirs and the criminals are given their due punishment.

We have seen career offenders over and over again, yet they are allowed back into society when time has been served. While that is correct in theory, it is statiscally proven that the maority of offenders offend again....and again....and again. There is no 'safe' place to be. However, we can defend what is right and what is wrong.

To those assailants who thought this was fun and a good time (and they left a voicemail as evidence - hello, how smart is that???), I say they are in sad disrepair as people, beyond rehabilitation and they must pay their retribution, including medical, legal and life's bills for Paul as a start, all while they are serving hard time in a place that is beyond the roses and farther beneath the dirt.

To Paul's family and friends, I will support you in any way that I can.

To the assailants - may you crawl slowly and painfully through the journey you have paved for yourselves.

This is still America; justice WILL be served and Paul's spirit and endurance will carry him through to a full life. Paul's family will be there to provide the support, love and care that he needs - that is what life is about.

Too bad the assailants will miss out on that in their lives.....

So many lives altered.....I still don't understand why and most likely never will.

Paul - hang in there. To his family and friends, you just ARE. I admire you all and only hope that I too can demonstrate the love and support you have all shown.