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"Speed Line Bus!" Taxpayer Funded Whales
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Streamline buses...
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| do charge you to ride on them...fyi. | |
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RE: Streamline buses... ARE FREE! Call Streamline 587-2434 DIRECTLY
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Are "Free" Call 587-2434 For more information... A public service announcement by Berry Patch... |
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RE: Streamline buses...
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I am pretty sure I have been told by folks who ride the bus that it is indeed free in regards to having to pay a bus fare. Also, it is my understanding that the bus funds are largely federal grant money probably kicked in to match local tax money. It is still tax payer money, but not all funded through the local "tax" economy. This approach is probably the best way to insure a bus system stays solvent long enough to catch on and slide into a position of charging bus fares. I say best way for the bus system and for the local establishment, not necessarily the best way for tax payers. |
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Yup, it's free
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Which is fine I guess... Can we (taxpayers) afford for these buses to be driving all around the valley, many times EMPTY? I think a fleet of Subaru's would be more efficient. I am not kidding. |
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My mistake...
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| coworker rides 2-3 times per week and she's always talking about having to have bus fare...do they take donations? | |
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RE: My mistake...
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hmmm.... Interesting correction. I wonder what other "tales" people tell where you work. "Bus Fare?" Are there any other buses around Bozeman, which charge bus fare? LOL |
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Yup, it's free
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More PORK for Bozemanite's. Imagine, the parking garage (10 million) was funded with 4 million PORK. So, I suppose it makes sense to move the PORK SUBSIDIZED Streamline Facility to the parking garage also. Or...is there more to this than meets the eye? Woul it make it easier/justifiable to request more Federal money in the future, from already overtaxed taxpayers, for this welfare project? Kinda' reminds me of the "Bridge to nowhere" in Alaska. (Never got built, but almost!) Lots of money spent, for the benefit of very few people. I think that transportation is essential for all. But seriously, MASSIVE EMPTY BUSES ROAMING THE GALLATIN VALLEY all on the back of taxpayers, most who do not use the service? |
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Bus fare
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| Yep, Berrymountain, now I'm wondering about this 'bus fare'...she's on a diet...maybe it's a cover for digging for change for the candy machine in the break room....hmmmm..... | |
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Ask her if she's taking "Greyhound"
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| Leave the driving to us...and the paying! | |
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berry you are simple-minded
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what were you expecting berry? it was very clear, from the moment that details of the plan to provide public transport in bozeman were discussed, that it would be free at first, and charge fees later. this model has been used in countless other towns, with varying degrees of success. it's not a bad idea. you wind up with "leave the driving & paying to us", but that's the philosophy that's gotten us where we are at this moment, in terms of our individual and collective dependence upon foreign oil & dirty energy. there are basically two opposing sides to this: - the free-market approach says let financial conditions control the decisions people make. i.e. expensive gas = more people buying cars that get better mileage, among other things - like more people buying locally-produced food/products due to transport/fuel costs bringing prices of "foreign" goods up to (or above) the prices of local goods - demand will shift. like with our dollar being so weak against other currencies - more people are buying american goods. some say this is good, but the weak dollar also exacerbates energy prices (oil is sold in dollars) - thus making it more expensive for american companies to produce the goods that americans would like to buy - thus meaning that workers will push for higher wages to maintain their level of lifestyle - thus meaning that companies will have higher labor costs - stagflation berry. - and the other side is more interventionist, in terms of what the gov't should be doing to reduce our dependence upon oil. some say (yes the straw-man, sorry) - that if our gov't had raised taxes on gas 15 years ago, so that we'd been paying then perhaps what we are instead paying now, that that tax money [... accidentally hit enter key... con't below] |
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Ahhh.... You've taken "Economics 101"
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Pretty impressed. You last comment, made my point. "all that money is going to saudi, iran, venzuela, nigeria, and other oil-heavies." |
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rats, that enter button...
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picking up, sorry ... that tax money would've gone to projects that would've, over the past 15 years, done something to mitigate our present dependence upon foreign energy supplies - rather now, all that money is going to saudi, iran, venzuela, nigeria, and other oil-heavies. regardless of where you stand on these issues, it's ignorant to smear the usefulness of a public transport system, based on your observation of an empty bus driving at 65 in a 55 zone. the simple fact is that the collective herd of people, which we are, doesn't have a stellar track record of making decisions that affect our future in positive ways. we put people in charge to hopefully make decisions that we agree with. that happens by a process called voting. and those officials who made the choice to provide bozeman/belgrade/4corn with a bus system have never been inaccessible - there were countless community meetings, and nothing that you see or describe should be a shock. the goal is to continue to increase riders, and turn the bus system into a less-tax-dependent service. although there aren't many transport systems that turn profit, the matter is much bigger than what you make it out to be, and for that you should be labelled as a "TROLL", because you are trying to bait people into making emotional responses on an issue that should be viewed and discussed from a much larger & logical perspective, one that includes long-term views and analyses on economic forecasts on all levels from individual consumers, to city/county/state/federal - as opposed to "i saw an empty bus speeding, my tax dollars are in that gas tank!" you are a moron with weak skills for inflammatory rhetoric, a troll, and extremely short-sighted. |
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RE: rats, that enter button...
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Again, read what I have written. I have no doubt that the number of riders is tracked. I have no problem with free public transportation free. I have a problem with large, empty vehicles roaming around with few no passengers. I have never seen (not that I doubt you) a "Streamiline Bus" with more than 3 passengers in it. I do believe that there are certain routes, at certain times which require a large vehicle. Again, all the routes do NOT require large, gas guzzling, speeding (over the legal limit) whales. |
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Public transportation....the rich peoples gift to the poor.....so they can have a cheap way to come work for the rich....
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No public transportation is a money making en devour. But rather it is like your car, you buy a car knowing that you won't make your money back on it but rather use it to make money...ie....driving to work, and other ventures....That is the same concept in public transportation. You pay millions of dollars but in exchange John Doe who doesn't have a car can get to work on the other side of town...Like I said, the riches gift to the poor... PS. In my home town they built a light rail and the first while it was free...just to build hype for it..... Even the big cities like NY and such have their public trans. subsidized by the feds. I will concede one point...I don't think Bozeman because of the size of the town and the fact that it is pretty bike friendly really needs a bus system...but I guess they were banking on the future....could pay off might not...time will tell |
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no school for this guy...
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| i learn what i want to learn by reading, but economics 101 was never on my agenda. read the news before spounting off this emotional crap about the bus system that a majority of people in bozeman decided to support, fully aware of the fact that this is a long-term effort. what's it been, 2 years? ritalin might help you.... | |
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RE: no school for this guy...
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Your other handle would be? Taxes are a concern for those who pay a considerable amount based on income bracket. You see, we don't all pay the same amount. Evidently there are quite a few on this blog who are not paying a significant portion of their incomes to city/county/state or federal government. The City of Bozeman has no emergency fund, is running in the red and apparently you think it is "emotional" to have concerns about wasteful spending? Ok... Also, pretty funny! You said "it picked no one up at riverside or the airport" So, you apparently KNOW this route. Hmmm... I wonder why that is? I had no idea it also went to the "airport." But, you did. FYI: The "Story Mansion" is also another WHALE the city now owns, courtesy of the City of Bozeman Commissioner's. Find SOMEONE/ANYONE happy with that! |
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RE: no school for this guy...
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i stand by everything i said. your original post was nothing but emotional spillage based on your observation of an empty bus speeding. you label the bus system as a "taxpayer funded whale" because on the one specific journey you witnessed, it picked no one up at riverside or the airport. that, in a nutshell, is your supporting argument, and it can quickly and easily be shot down by my response that i see the busses travelling frequently with passengers. your argument is weak and your position is not easily defended. if you are unhappy about the bus system, then vote for people who support removing it. but this diatribe about "empty busses" and "my tax money" and blah blah blah... all you do is gripe and bitch and publicly criticize others who you think are worthy of your ridicule. you are a force for the negative. the things i discussed in my previous posts are serious issues that need to be confronted when it comes time to begin making changes in our energy decisions. overall ridership in various areas should certainly be considered, when it comes time for routine assessments of the public transport system we have. concerns about wasteful deficit spending are indeed justified - but looking at it through the prism of your windshield behind one empty bus is nonsense. |
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B U S B I A S
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I grew up in a city and rode busses everywhere til I moved to Montana. When I heard there was a push to get busses for Bozeman, I thought, now we'll have the same smell and noise we had where I grew up. I've never been on one. Can you guess why. I always check to see who's riding when one passes me. They are empty most of the time or there is only one passenger. I can't see how this is efficient. They are not keeping any cars off the road that I can tell. (It says "Bus Bias" above but it won't let me edit that line for some reason.) |
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WALKER BOZEMAN RANGER GAVE AWAY THAT HE IS USING 2 SCREEN NAMES! READ THIS
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See below: "THE THINGS I DISCUSSED IN MY PREVIOUS POSTS..." (funny, "walkerbozemanranger" has NO "POSTS" under his screename...) By Walkerbozemanranger: "the things i discussed in my previous posts are serious issues that need to be confronted when it comes time to begin making changes in our energy decisions. overall ridership in various areas should certainly be considered, when it comes time for routine assessments of the public transport system we have. concerns about wasteful deficit spending are indeed justified - but looking at it through the prism of your windshield behind one empty bus is nonsense." Walker, if we click onto your screename, it shows no "profile" and ZERO "Posts." You obviously are one pathetic person, who has creted alter screenames, so that you can spew your hatred of other people's opinions in multiples. Are you a city/county coucilmember? The mayor? Someone who hates their life? Let me simply my "emotional" opinion regarding taxes. I believe our spending local and nationwide should be based on the revenue/taxes paid in to the coffers (city/county/state/federal). Programs that unwisely use the hard earned tax dollars, need to be revamped. Our children are suffering with overcrowded schools, teachers are seriously underpaid, jails and prisons are overcrowed. I could continue, but you would attack me for doing so. I care about what our tax dollars are spent on, and want to see the money used wisely, not thrown around. Walker, you are the one who evidently needs or is on "Ritalin." You likely have some bi-polar mental problem. I do not hide behind alter screen names to give myself *'s when I post or comment. I dont' use alter screen names to multiply my nasty comments to others, as you are doing. Pooter, check the IP addresses, though having a different IP at work will easily allow anyone to have multiple screenames without detection. Obviously some people are blogging using more than one screen name, allowing for multiple attacks on blogger such as myself. In communist countries people are now allowed to have an opinion different from the government. |
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RE: WALKER BOZEMAN RANGER GAVE AWAY THAT HE IS USING 2 SCREEN NAMES! READ THIS
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you are indeed correct on one point: i have no posts - only comments thus far. by "my previous posts", i was simply referring to my comments on this thread. the closest thing to a valid opinion that you've mentioned is this: "I believe our spending local and nationwide should be based on the revenue/taxes paid in to the coffers (city/county/state/federal). Programs that unwisely use the hard earned tax dollars, need to be revamped. Our children are suffering with overcrowded schools, teachers are seriously underpaid, jails and prisons are overcrowed." but even here, your statements blanket every school and every jail and every teacher, and therefore could easily be disputed by finding one single teacher who's not underpaid. regardless, i respect your conviction that gov't spending should be accountable, and budgeting should be accordingly based on expected revenue. i don't think many people would argue with you on this point. argumentum ad hominem is the term used to refer to your tactic of attacking your opponent without defending the actual positions you've been attacked on. it's called a logical fallacy, and it really makes you look ignorant. finally, what kind of crap is this: "he's got an alter screenname! someone call pooterman! check his IP!" with due respect to poot, he can't help you here. you can help yourself though, by reading about successful and failed public transportation systems, as well as learning more about both sides of the issue of whether public transportation is a worthwhile expenditure/investment. |
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Good Luck
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Look out, WBR. Berrymountain is a simple-minded shark on this blog. Any opposition to his/her skewed point of view and you'll be scorned. It's nice to see that I'm not the only one suffering the wrath. |
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RE: Good Luck
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| thanks for the pep, but i don't suffer anyone's wrath. and nor do you. in reality, she's the best thing to happen to this blog - how many people come to read the foolish crap she spews? it's great! it's like tamara hall and the chronicle - the only logical reason she has a job there is because people love to hate her. and by "hate her", what i really mean is "spend 50 cents to read what kind of crap she wrote this week". | ||
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Fare free
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The reason it's fare-free is it costs a lot of money to collect fares, print tickets, install fare boxes, enforcement, etc. In small town systems like this one, the cost of collection usually equals or exceeds revenues. Now if you raise fares so high that revenue meets or exceeds collection costs, ridership decreases because fewer people can afford it. Also, the system qualifies for less federal funding in proportion to the amount of fare revenue it generates. It's a zero sum situation. For what it's worth, I ride the bus several times a week from my house in Valley West to my job downtown and I'm never the only one riding. In fact, there were so many riders on my bus one day I had to stand up for part of the trip. This was unusual, but so is an empty bus. |
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The "Fleet" of buses will be worn out...
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By the time, they truly need the size presently being used on all routes. Seriously, get some 10 passenger/handicap accessible vans for the other routes. This is a huge waste of money. Why is no one making a fuss about how much we pay teachers? Maybe I should re-word that..."Why is no one making a fuss about how LITTLE we pay teachers?" The DRIVERS of these mostly EMPTY Whales/buses, make MORE MONEY than a teacher does! A "substitute teacher" is paid $80.00 per day. And we expect what from these teachers? We entrust our children's education to them. But we pay them way less than a bus driver. Awful! |
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RE: The "Fleet" of buses will be worn out...
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i agree with you that poor compensation for teachers is an issue that should be addressed. unfortunately there's a competing factor here in Bozeman especially, and that is the sheer quantity of people who are willing to teach for such a small salary. supply & demand - lots of teachers makes them worth less, at least in economic terms. and i think that that's pretty "F'd up", no doubt. but considering the teachers' pay against the bus drivers' pay is not the answer: as an IT professional, i make more money than most police officers. that's pretty "F'd up" also. there are countless other scenarios that provide the same result. here's an interesting article on Finland's approach to schools, one with which they've had some modest successes: Economist.com :: Education Reform i don't necessarily just think we should move towards such a system without having serious discussion among Americans, but hey - it's an idea. and some ideas are better than NO ideas. |
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Whale watching in Glouster
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| Hey,Berrymountain, maybe we can get the money people to send us on a free ride to Glouster Massachusetts for some whale watching and deep sea fishing. I can smell the salt air already, and we both know that beats the stench of whale fumes. If we are getting a free ride why stop at MSU? Keep er goin man, to Livingston and beyond. | |
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Streamline Bus
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| I think the bus system is wonderful. I think it is catching on. I see more and more people getting on and the bus stops have people waiting. My teenage daughters started using it. They walk to the bus stop in Belgrade and take the bus to a stop near a stable where they can ride their horses. I'm a single parent and this bus has made our summer delightful. Not only do I not have to make extra trips from Bozeman (where I work) to Belgrade to get my kids but they were able to spend more time doing activities. I must also comment on the kindness of the bus driver of the route who keeps a look out for the kids. Like the time my daughter forgot to pull the wire and he turned around for her or helping them get their bikes secured to the front of the bus so they can have bikes with them. I would suggest people make a point to try the bus- it might be fun. We have never been charged a fare but I would gladly do so. | |
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New Streamline rider
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On Wednesday we sold our 2nd vehicle and on Thursday I became a Streamline commuter. It's a half hour walk to the closest stop, which gives me an hour exercise each day. Selling the car paid for a fuel efficient furnace and a solar hot water heater. It also meant no longer tossing money at the insurance industry. MSU is a big funder of the Streamline system, so I don't feel like a mooch using it. And as a 28 yr resident of Bozeman, I'm glad I can take one more vehicle off our streets. As nervous as I was about giving up the car, I can't begin to describe how relieved I now feel | |