What ever happened to the "Beat Cop"

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I think, to have beat cops downtown would create a great
rapport with the community, even if the most important thing they did on their shift was to give someone directions!

There are many infractions that happen with just people walking across the street, and routing out those with ill commentary toward passersby and beggars!

I think it's getting to be time to bring'em back.

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posted on Wed, Jun 04, 2008 07:58 PM
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You know, you're right. byberrymountain2 months ago (0 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
And how are we going to pay for that? Well of course, if "Downtown" businesses can afford to pay the salary of an officer then that would be great. But so far, "Downtown" seems to always be on the receiving end of taxpayer dollars.


Our schools are overcrowded and underfunded/teachers underpaid.

Many of our streets are not properly maintained, though downtown does look great! With all the taxpayer money spent on renovations, it should! Oh, and a new parking garage to boot funded by Federal Tax Dollars! (Kind of makes one wonder...hmmm...why would anyone, constantly "post" ideas which of course would benefit downtown, and also be paid for with taxpayer money?) Hmmm...

City parks, and other city owned properties are many times quite neglected. I wonder if the "downtown" businesses would like to pay to keep up the parks that we all could enjoy? Now that's an idea.
RE: You know, you're right. bysouthward2 months ago (1 votes) (report abuse)
A quick call to the Downtown Business Association got an answer to your questions. It seems they approached the PD about this issue at one point and even had funds approved through the Business Improvement District, but the dep't is stretched from its current obligations to where they can't spare the manpower even with downtown covering the difference. And downtown doesn't have the funds to sponsor a full additional officer, so that is where the issue stands today. According to them both sides generally support the idea.

It's true that there is some Fed transportation bill money involved with the Parking Garage and the street repairs, but those don't seem like unreasonable ends for such money. Main Street is also US 191 and the I-90 business loop, and the improvements will extend beyond the downtown from 11th to Highland.

Also, the owners of buildings within the Downtown Tax Increment Fund area have come together to pay in more for many of the improvements you mention.

From the DBA website:

The TIF board recently provided matching funds for the landscaping of Soroptomist Park. TIF monies funded the historic street lamps, benches, trash receptacles, and bike racks along Main Street.

The TIF is the major funding source for the Downtown Parking Garage, which began construction in August of 2007. The TIF also contributes funds to the Downtown Partnership for staffing and operating the Downtown Visitors Center.

Me again: Please check out the DBA's about us page here:

http://downtownbozeman.org/about-us.html

. . .for more detailed information about contributions to the community by the building owners (TIF) and individual business owners through voluntary membership in the DBA. This includes projects as varied as Music on Main and the recent graffiti cleanup. Keep in mind this is money over and above the taxes that all businesses pay toward general improvements.
There are Cops on duty already by2ndMonkey2 months ago (0 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
having one park conspicuously to take a walk through on a block or two would actually be a good thing to do. At this point, if someone needed Law Enforcement, it would take 15 to twenty minutes for one to show up after being dispatched to an incident.
A study...... bydwainegf2 months ago (0 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
A study would show the necessity of a downtown law officer. My guess is that there isn't enough crime to warrent an officer in that small a geographical area. The city would be better served with patrol officers.
What about the bicycle cops? bygixa2 months ago (0 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
I don't live downtown so I don't even know where they patrol, but doesn't Bozeman have officers on bikes?
berrywrong...again byjcnlmr2 months ago (0 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
Just another reminder that downtown's new sidewalks, lighting, benches, bike racks, trash cans, traffic signals and pedestrian amenities were paid for with downtown specific tax monies and/or MDT funds. Following suit, the parking garage construction is being funded by downtown derived funds with some federal assistance for the public transportation component.

I might also remind, berrymountain that all citizens are free to enjoy the new and vastly improved Soroptomist Park which incidentally was financed by the downtown community.

In an effort to redirect this thread back to 2ndMonkey's original topic, I would add that the downtown law enforcement is certainly lacking. That being said I understand that all of Bozeman's public services are struggling to keep pace with the ever-increasing demands brought about by explosive growth.
RE: berrywrong...again HOW ABOUT THE TRUTH!!! ??? TIF LYING... byberrymountain2 months ago (0 votes) (report abuse)
The "DOWNTOWN" TIF is using money that would normally be going to the City of Bozeman General Fund, and NOT ONE DIME MORE. What you pay in taxes on your properties that makes its way into the City of Bozeman "General Fund," has been frozen at 1995 levels! THE rest of the dough, TIF DISTRICT property owners tuck into the TIF account.

The Soroptomist Park was landscaped with money the TIF District controls that in the past would have made it to the general fund benefitting everyone. Sorry, I do NOT see people flocking to Soroptomist Park! Property owners in the TIF have simply found a legal way to control the tax dollars whic in the past went into the general fund. You TIF District property owners, use this for your "special projects" as you control that money. On top of that, you want a "pat on the back" for using money that no longer benefits everyone, but it does BENFIT THE VALUES OF YOUR PROPERTIES!!!

Too bad the property owners in the TIF District, are not more HONEST about how they have come about the funds IN THEIR TIF ACCOUNT. The City of Bozeman "General Fund," now receive peanuts from TIF property owners (taxes are frozen/based on 1995 levels).

So, try to tell the WHOLE TRUTH, rather than MANIPULATE the TRUTH. It is manipulative statements like yours that will and are giving TIF District a worse name than they already have.

Oh, and the TIF District property owners, and their families enjoy ALL parks and public places, which are funded with tax dollars of all property owners who pay their taxes to the City of Bozeman. You people do not do that. That tax the rest of us pay, is based on present valuation/bill. So YOU and YOUR FAMILY ENJOY WHAT THE REST OF US PAY FOR, ALL OVER TOWN!

You are one really good example of how TIF District property owners, manipulate the general public into thinking that YOU/THEY/TIF come up with this money over and above.

PATHETIC and MANIPULATIVE ARGUMENT.
TIF operates on FederalPORK and Property Tax Dollars that never make it into the "general fund."
I think it is a necessity because... by2ndMonkey2 months ago (0 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
...I walked to lunch from work one day, a dog tied to one of the tree cages jumped up and bit my hand. I had to call Law Enforcement to get the # for animal control, who didn't bother but to take information and not coming to the scene! One is left to deal with the circumstance themself. If there were a Beat Cop(s) there would be almost immediate attention to determine who's dog it was and if it was appriately innoculated and licensed. If any of the previously mentioned were neglected, the animal could go into custody and the owner fined.

It is as much breaking the law as stealing a six pack of beer!

If there were ever a next time, the dog would be maced!!!
RE: I think it is a necessity because... byberrymountain2 months ago (0 votes) (report abuse)
2ndMonkey

Hey, an officer downtown is reasonable. The response you got for the dog bite is unacceptable and unexcuseable (sp? ahh!) I could also say an officer at the mall might be appropriate, or even one at the high school (do they have a full time officer there?) I do not have answers to the many questions I have, but would sure appreciate the answers.

My question though is simply one of funding. My concern is based on local high taxes, and high federal taxes. It is not an attack on anyone. Should I find downtown businesses, and property owners are truly coming up with all this money such as TIF/Parking Garage claim, then I am the first to acknowledge and respect this. In fact, I'd be more apt to go downtown and spend more money there. (I have little interest in the mall and avoid N. 19th like the plague.)

I want to know, and hope to find out today, the real truth behind the BID/TIF, etc. I want to know where the funds for projects come from.

Is that unreasonable?
SOUTHWARD byberrymountain2 months ago (0 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
I went to the site you suggested above. Read a whole bunch of "mission statements."

What I would really like to see, are the total cost of improvements to downtown. Then I'd sure like to see a breakdown of how much of that was paid for with Federa/State/County/City dollars. I'd like to see how much was paid for by "downtown businesses" without including the tax dollars ALL businesses are required to pay.

Not a white wash job on the numbers, or a bunch of "Mission Statements."
? bysouthward2 months ago (0 votes) (report abuse)
I offered that link as a better source of information (than me) on the subject as I don't claim to be an authority, just an interested party.

No claim of numbers, just "about us."

I don't understand the impulse to manufacture controversy here. Call DBA and the parking commission tomorrow, and you can get actual numbers from the horse's mouth. Then if I am mistaken or have overstated somehow, please let me know.
Southward byberrymountain2 months ago (0 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
This post suggests that a Police Officer downtown would be a benefit to "downtown." I for one have come to the conclusion, that this indeed is a very good and solid idea, as many ideas are. But, there is the issue of funding and cost.

I comment mainly from the view of spending tax dollars conservatively and wisely. I'd sure like to know how much crime goes on "downtown." Would the cost of wages/benefits, etc. in hiring police officer(s) for downtown be justified? (At least 4 full time officers would need to be hired to patrol 24 hours a day.)
RE: Southward bysouthward2 months ago (0 votes) (report abuse)
I'm not sure why this has my "name" on it, but here goes. . .

When this issue was first approached, they had money approved from the BID (business improvement district) which is the one that is "extra" money, and separate from TIF as far as I know. I think the sticking point was that BPD doesn't have officers to spare even if downtown covers the difference. Probably other neighborhoods looking for more patrols would get the same response, and I can think of very few (this side of Yellowstone Club) who could, or would be expected to, fund a private police force.

I'm not trying to be the champion for all things downtown. I thought when you ended lines in question marks you were making a request for information, which I provided. I didn't realize I was getting involved in a competition or I would have kept quiet. Again, thank you for the info and conversation, but you seem hung up on establishing the idea that my neighborhood is somehow in competition with yours. If so, the "downtown is snobby" thread covers this more thoroughly a few pages back.
Who said anything about 24 hours a day?! by2ndMonkey2 months ago (1 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
For a Cop to conspicuously park and take a walkabout can cut down on alot of thing's: people who cross Main St in the middle of a block, people who cross improperly at cross walks, rude and disruptive kids, sidewalk skateboarders & cyclists, loiterer's, begger's. There are a host of other reason, that will not be mentioned as they are investigatory issues. Bottles and glasses being broken on the sidewalks and curbs, bar antics, etc.

It'd bring back a little from the stand-offishness that there has developed between Law Enforcement and the Civi's!

Kind of like "Good Customer Service!"
Cops would probably feel better about the job... byBozemaniteNo314232 months ago (1 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
...'cause most everybody is not a lawbreaker. Where did this idea of being stand-offish come from anyway, a friggin' LA or NY Cop.

A cop looked right at me when I was getting lunch in a local grocery store, I said "Hi!", and just got a glare, like, "who the hell are you!!"

Time for an attitude change I think!
RE: Cops would probably feel better about the job... by2ndMonkey2 months ago (0 votes) (report abuse)
I agree here, Military personal have a much better appreciation for U.S. Citizens than Police Departments across the country. Good and decent people are looked at as if they've got to be guilty of something!
Would be a good post byberrymountain2 months ago (0 votes) (report abuse) (reply)
I think your comment would be a great post. Photo of Law and Justice Center. Send em' a message. We the people...who pay your salary...etc.

Edit: Responsible citizens understand Federal, State, and local taxes (property). Those unfamiliar with property taxes, that is what generally pays for things like law enforcement. A recent article in the Chronicle, spoke of the understaffed Sheriff's Office.

But, what the heck. Sure, why not post officers downtown to give directions? Sounds like a few people have no clue...gime' gime' gime'...the same one's who have no concept of taxes.