DOWNTOWN IN DISTRESS - What Do You Think?
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Downtown
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There are so many factors going into why downtown Bozeman isn't thriving like it used to. Everything you named is a factor (excluding better shopping options on 19th). Downtown has charm, 19th has... well... boxes... with things in them. I hope that everyone takes some time this summer to get downtown. I understand that the recent weather puts a huge damper on wanting to walk anywhere, and the price of gas is absurd, but carpooling, free public transportation, bicycles, are always an option. Maybe there should be a dedicated downtown experience day? I work downtown, everyone's feeling it. Cactus Records is experiencing a huge hit due to downloading and decreased cost at box stores, and when you can get books and music in one place... At least Country Bookshelf and Cactus you get something box stores rarely offer - customer service with a smile and brains. |
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The mess with the parking garage
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The limitless amount of construction going on is a draw back, all last summer we had the thing with the lights and intersections, now we have the parking garage, and a few years ago they tore up the whole thing to make the sidewalks wider and replace the water mains. If the city actually left things alone for a year or two maybe people would change their habits rather then just deciding to hop on Mendenhall or Babcock to bypass the entire mess. I can't remember the last time I walked down the length of main street just because its such a hassle to park and traffic. Also a lot of downtown really isn't all that great anymore. With the loss of the Ellen, such a tragedy (and the Rialto), there isn't a real anchor to downtown. Sure you can go for dinner but whats to do there after that? Look at architecture offices, buy some jewelry or go to some old bar thats in dire need of a renovation? There isn't any point anymore. Downtown really need to re-invent itself as a destination, by continuing events such as Music on Main and the beautification projects. The Downtown Bozeman Association really used to be a driving force for all of this, but once they lost their first director things have really gone down hill with respect to visibility of changes. But thats really here nor there, until the businesses decide they want to do something I think we'll continue to see things atrophy. P.S. I doubt Ted's Montana Grill will make that much of a difference. But if they relight the Baxter's neon, that would be really neat. |
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I think people are just saving $ these days
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Other than in the case of Vargo's, Country Book Seller, Cactus, and maybe Ace, I don't think the stores on 19th compete directly with downtown. Downtown's furniture stores, art galleries, and most or all of the clothing stores are fairly high-end and expensive. The people who can afford to patronize those stores regularly are probably not the same people that get lured to Target for cheap laminate desks or to Pier 1 for vases and candle holders. My wife and I aren't big shoppers but we love walking downtown on weekends when we're not planning a day of hiking or biking etc. We buy some coffee at L&B and maybe some tools or hardware at Ace and browse at the outdoor gear shops (good outdoor gear lasts years so I have everything I need). But other than that, what's left to buy? Expensive rugs, paintings, or extreme high-end audio gear? I really hope our downtown stays as vibrant as it's been but many of the stores that are going in are just not places that sell the kinds of nuts & bolts items that I need regularly. If Ace pulls out when the new store opens I probably won't go into town very much at all unless I'm buying a book or some fish. Parking has never been an issue for me. Even when I drive into town I can usually find a spot within a couple blocks of the store I'm going to. So I guess the lack of biz downtown is mostly just due to folks tightening their belts. For the record, I did buy a book at Vargo's 2 weeks ago. |
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I agree that $ is a big issue
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I also love to go downtown. It has such a great feel! But many stores downtown are very expensive and like shane said, they aren't somewhere I generally go to regularly (except Ace). I try to patronize local businesses as much as I can, but often find a workable solution for less somewhere else. It is very expensive, as we all know, to live here and I personally can't go shopping downtown. Some stores have maintained reasonable prices and unique items that draw people in. I remember when crazy days downtown was actually the event to go to. For $5 you could walk away with sacks of stuff. I understand inflation, but to me, finding a T-shirt on sale 75% off for the deal price of $20 is crazy. Not sure if I'm the oddball or not, but I prefer to get the best quality I can for the least amount of money. I also don't feel that parking is the issue. I've never really struggled with that. Just being cautious with my money!! Also, It would be a tragedy to Bozeman to lose the Ellen Theater. Does anyone know its current status? |
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Downtown is slow because of...
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| ...The economy scare in the air, plain and simple. The weather, I think it's playing a part in peoples travel habits too. It really isn't that bad to get downtown, I have alway's found good "legal" parking. I park a bit of a distance from where I want to go, that way I can walk around and maybe see something new, or drop in a store I wouldn't normally go to. I have found thing's available that I didn't realize I could get right here in Bozeman, you can even get an ice cream treat in the hardware store and rest on the bench out front! What could be better than a walk, a rest with a treat before you head home with some great shopping finds. | |
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Much Improved Downtown
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Downtown is no longer the "depressing" place it was in the 1970's. It has been beatifully restored for the most part, with updates that blend beautifully with the original character and history. Then there is N. 19th. What a disaster! Buildings placed in every direction, some with their backs to the street, and simply the generic version found on any street corner in America. Bozemanites apparently think this is "living." T Keep in mind this was paid for by all taxpayers in Bozeman. "All" being key word. Only problem is, the stores downtown/old Bozeman, do not cater to the middle class, and certainly not to those who are classified as "work force housing" folks. It is IRONIC that the businesses downtown cater to the upper class, yet do not hesitate to take tax dollars from all citizens to pay for their updates. Then these business owners cry for the average citizen, to buy their goods. We are suppose to feel "sorry" for them while they cater to the wealthy? Kind of funny, actually....the snotty business owners begging the middle class to hand over some hard earned dollars, while they stick their noses up in the air at them. |
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upper class?
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| All stores downtown do not cater to the upper class. I don't generally see white collars in poor richards, and I rarely see them at La Tinga. | |
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Class
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I am happy to support the stores located downtown and prefer to do so, as long as I am able to afford their products and services. Downtown is unique from all other shopping areas of Bozeman. I am also glad that Bozeman has such a variety of shops which meet the needs and desires of all living in the South West Montana. The North 19th corridor has simply provided an alternative to KMart and WalMart with slightly better, mediocre shopping at best. Problem is, the incomes of many in Bozeman are just that...mediocre. The mall is my last choice. The parking lot and floorplan are a disaster. The theatre is probably one of the dirtiest I have seen anywhere. The "food court" is a dump. Downtown is the best place. Just wish there were more affordable shops, and wish they'd bring back "Chambers Fischer." Quality and affordable to almost everyone. Now, that was class. |
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Downtown Stores
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It would be my guess that the stores downtown that would have the tougher go of it would be the ones that have to compete with other, franchise type stores. Most stores downtown seem to be more specialized and have their own place. But shops like the Country Bookshelf, Phillips, Heeb's, Owenhouse and Western Drug all have to compete. And they do it well with competitive prices and customer service not found elsewhere. They deserve our buisness. Especially if we want to keep downtown vibrant because I think all these named buisnesses (and maybe others I'm forgetting) are the cornerstones of downtown. Having said all that, I admit to giving the box stores more of my buisness than I should. |
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Combination of factors
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While I agree that the street work has made a two-year mess of downtown and undoubtedly adversely affected all the businesses there, the success or failure of the shops is simple economics. If businesses go bust, it is because they fail to offer merchandise and pricing that the public wants. When I look at the stores that previous commenters have mentioned, one thing stands out: they all offer goods and services at a cost folks are willing to pay. There are no art galleries, trade show display system, or climbing equipment shops mentioned. In these tough economic times, who has $3,000 to blow on an original oil painting? (Who ever did?) In the interest of fairness, those merchants were not mentioned in the Chronicle coverage so maybe they're doing all right by filling a particular niche. Personally, I like The Country Bookshelf but I rarely buy books at any of the local booksellers except when I'm in the mood to browse. I usually check out the reviews on Amazon.com and, after being told repeatedly that the book I want is not in stock but, "We can order it for you," I now skip the drive and the middleman, and purchase it online. It's then delivered directly to my home (often with free shipping) and I don't have to make an extra trip to pick it up. Do I feel guilty for shopping online or patronizing a big box store? Not at all. It's my money so I get to decide where I'm getting the most value for it. It's not my responsibility to make anyone's business a success — it's theirs. They need to sell something that's viable, unique, and/or offers good value. The successful downtown businesses get this. That being said, I hope merchants will be able to survive and recover from the street improvements but I think downtown may be in for some changes. |
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shopping downtown Bozeman
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| I agree with many of gixa's points. We have shopped downtown Bozeman over 40 years and remember that we weren't always treated well by the merchants. Never had many choices of merchandise or prices so we welcomed the diversity of prices, stores and items to buy. Always enjoyed the service at Phillips Bookstore as well as Western Drugstore, but they can't have the large inventory available to chain stores...also need to mention that the city of Bozeman didn't do the downtown a favor when it blocked off large areas for so many months. It has been a pain to try to get to some of the stores. | |
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Problem is...
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With chain stores any product they sell they get a bulk discount because they have so many stores to send inventory to. As with books, music, groceries... anything. The more you order the cheaper it gets and they have the capital to do this. Unfortunately, this puts the little guy into a spin, causing a price increase for orders smaller than certain crate shipping rates etc. So with books, music and anything else box stores have hundreds of, the little guy has.. one or two, and is forced to increase prices accordingly. That's why Target, Walmart, Borders, Barnes & Noble, Gap, Old Navy, and basically any other box store can sell things for so inexpensive. They don't have to mark their prices up, and if they don't sell something, they can simply just return it, as to where the little guy can not. With music and downloading, online sources such as iTunes can make a direct purchase of songs and don't have to deal with the aesthetics of the album, such as cover art, jewel cases or shipping. I'll also admit to buying essentials at box stores (toothpaste, underwear... socks.. things of the sort) because they're cheap and I use/lose them a lot. However, with books, music, health foods, office supplies, camera equipment, tools or whatever, I shop locally, and budget my costs. ACE isn't a local store, it's a smaller franchise, which I'm still willing to support, and if they don't have what I need, I make the trek to Kenyon Noble, even though Oak Street on a bike is kind of terrifying. Bottom line is budgeting. Everyone needs to do it, especially now. If you can't support a local book or music seller, is it really imperative that you have that item, or is it just a obsessive compulsive consumer must-have? Not trying to pick a fight, just digging down to the bare necessities that we should be focusing on if our $$$ is really all that tight. |
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So now what?
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As downtown residents and business owners we back up the idea that traffic is off. Sure the construction had an impact, but it's been over for awhile, and it seems as a group our time would be better spent finding creative ways to deal with it. The downtown location will always come with benefits and burdens and as entrepreneurs we all have the same obligation to adapt to change or wither. Our customers don't owe us their business, but we can do our best to make ourselves indispensable to them regardless of our location. Not to speak for the Cateye, but they have been cozied up to that giant hole in the ground all these months, and many days the line still goes out the door. Ale Works is on the far side of downtown construction projects for most of the population, and on any given Tuesday they serve hundreds of customers. The last time I had to order a book online because I couldn't find it here, I found it at redlodgebooks.com, a Montana business that I have never visited personally. Amazon had it too, but given the choice I bought from a Montana company that only had to let me know they were there and what they had for me. I don't know how downtown Red Lodge is doing, or even if the bookstore is downtown, and it doesn't really matter. Also let's not discount the loss of a few downtown anchors very recently. Westside has it right: instead of dozens to hundreds of people a night coming downtown to watch a movie and then decide on a restaurant or drinks, there are roughly zero people doing that. Even the marquees suggest people head out to the mall and catch a flick. With this in mind I have a hard time understanding some of the griping I have heard about Ted's Montana Grill moving in. Not my first choice either, but the Baxter has been empty for the better part of two years and that is a BIG DEAL for those of us on that end. After awhile we are just being picky for the sake of being picky. And I disagree strongly with the elitist notion. I do understand the sentiment, but I suspect many Chambers of Commerce in less successful towns would kill to have an art gallery consider their downtown as a place they could be successful. We are still in the bootstrapping stage where money is tight, and many of our daily needs are met by businesses in the neighborhood. Anyway I am sort of going on here, but my original point was that whatever accounts for the slowdown, the answer is creativity not complaining. And maybe a parking garage. |
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You have to support and love downtown!
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I travel a lot and I think the biggest thing for supporting downtown Bozeman is that you have to go down there and explore what the businesses have! Everyone is always complaining that you can't get this or that in Bozeman, but you can! There are so many options, just get out there and everyone just needs to think before they buy something from the mall, or from Target, online, or from out of town. Give it a second thought and see if you can get it downtown first. I don't mind paying a couple extra $$ to support the local businesses. It's for the best. If I see a killer pair of designer boots out of town, ask the Ruby Slipper to order them for you! Or ask Elizabeth and Co to order your size...they are happy to do so. Money is definitley an issue that we are facing in the valley. Everyone knows it and it def plays a part in the fall in sales....but is there truly a fall in sales? I'm not so sure about that either, overall. |
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Consumer Confidence plays large role
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| Downtown retail businesses (with some exceptions) have gradually evolved to cater to higher margin, unique, and/or non-essential items. These non-essential items are typically the first thing on the "chopping block" when people start to feel a lack of confidence in the economy. Restaurants and liquor sales usually see a spike in volume in a slightly depressed economy, which is what it appears we are seeing downtown right now. People have some expendable money, but they are being more cautious about what they are buying and aren't buying a lot of what they can't unload if times get tight. This will change, but for the time being it's going to be tough for those folks in retail downtown. The public has been bombarded with talk of recession and gloom and doom economic conditions, although we haven't experienced the two consecutive quarters of decline necessary to signal the beginning of a recession and it's affecting consumer confidence. We've got people in media comparing what we are experiencing now to the Great Depression, and Jimmy Carter's presidency, which is plain ridiculous. It's no mistake that this coincides with the presidential elections this year. Last year at this time consumer confidence was high and people generally had a good perception of the economy. There was some differing opinion regarding foreign policy and more politically emotional issues, but we can save that or another discussion. Bottom line is that last year people felt they had a good position in life and this year people are talking like we're on the brink of economic failure. Next year, no matter who is in office, people will be talking about how wonderful the economic recovery is and they will start to buy antler "art", bonzai trees, and pricey paintings from unknown artists again. Things are certainly slower and the economy is now struggling, but it was instigated by those folks working on being elected and sensational news. There's no reason for change we can believe in if people are happy and consumer confidence is high. | |
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Downtown Had a Monopoly Until 1980
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1980 "Main Mall": The mall took the 1st chunk out of revenue which historically had gone to downtown Bozeman. (Beginning of the end...) North 19th: (year?) More nails pounded into the coffin of downtown, when the BRILLIANT City fathers and mothers, decided that Bozeman needed all the generic stores. (and tax dollars) Somewhere during this period of time, downtown business owners decided their wares should cater to the King's and Queen's in the valley. They forgot where their bread and butter came from. A distinctive aire of snobbiness has taken over downtown. (Sweet Pea Blog: "Keep out the Riff Raff") What happened to "Main Street" Bozeman, Montana you ask? A farming and ranching community... How much have taxpayers spent "spiffing up" downtown Bozeman for these snotty business owners? Looks great though, just not so many can afford the stores or want to put up with the snobby employees! Taxpayers footed the bill for most of the downtown facelift. The BLOODSUCKERS somehow pulled off an grant/earmark courtesy of FEDERAL TAXPAYERS, to build themselves a covered parking garage. HURRAH! Who cares. Just another blatent waste of taxpayer dollars to fund snotty business owners, who will be the one's parking in the taxpayer funded garage. They'll not get my business. I say, let em' suffer. They've been handed oodles of taxpayer dollars on silver platters, and they still whine like trust fund babies. (read the blogs above) Downtown has a bad R E P U T A T I O N ! |
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Downtown restaurants are what keep it alive for locals
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| Like most others have said, most of the retail stores downtown are upscale and beyond the average Bozemanite's means -- not that I have much disposable income anyway, regardless of where it is spent. I don't go downtown to buy my groceries or my toilet paper or my underwear and socks. Parking is inconvenient but not really all that bad. I think the loss of the Ellen and Rialto has certainly hurt. Owenhouse is about the only downtown retail business I make an effort to shop at, because it has things I need and can afford. I read voraciously but borrow books from the library or from friends -- I rarely buy one. I think what really keeps the downtown thriving among locals are the restaurants. When my family decides to splurge on dinner out, more often than not, we choose a place downtown, and have eaten at every downtown restaurant at least once (though the expensive places are reserved for very special occasions like anniversaries or graduations). And we do like to stroll up and down Main before or after dinner -- always in the summer, and often on a beautiful snowy winter evening, looking at the nice window displays, but certainly not buying anything. | |
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Nicely Said
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| I think that was nicely said, and I believe you speak for many. | |
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berrywrong
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I think the public or at least those who frequent BozemanTalks! deserve a more accurate assessment of the recent infrastructure investments in downtown Bozeman. Yes, the sidewalk and street improvements that took place in 2002 and 2007 were funded by tax revenues, but berrymountain (and perhaps others) might be interested to know that there are many sources of tax revenues. Over 95% of the improvements made in the downtown area over the past decade have been funded by tax revenues derived specifically from the downtown district. Through a number of avenues, various types of property taxes assessed to the downtown property owners have been, and continue to be, the primary funding source for the public downtown improvements. In other words, downtown has paid it's own bills for better sidewalks, historic street lighting, nice benches, trash cans and bike racks. Everyone benefits from these improvements as they are all public amenities. That's right, all of the public "spiffing up" has been paid for by private property owners. The new traffic signals, pedestrian ramps and crosswalks were funded 100% by the Montana Department of Transportation seeing as Main Street is a state highway. We all now benefit from a safer Main Street, as drivers and pedestrians, without spending a dime of municipal funds. The parking garage did receive federal funding in light of it's public transportation component as the Streamline transfer station. But keep in mind that the majority of the funds to construct the garage are being sourced from downtown property tax revenues. So, despite all of mountainberry's misinformed mud-slinging, downtown is an important component of the larger Bozeman community. In fact much of the Gallatin Valley's economic, social, political and cultural roots spread forth from downtown Bozeman's historic Main Street. Every healthy community needs a heart and soul...you be the judge...Bozeman can only have one nexus...what's it going to be? North 19th (Anywhere, USA)? Blighted North 7th Ave? or historic Downtown? |
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