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Poor Traffic Control
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Lights
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Yeah I notice it too...especially down Main St. Everytime I drive downtown Main St. to 19th, I get stopped by almost every single light. Encourage more bicycle use? That's all Bozeman needs-more cyclists. No offense, but I get irritated with the ones we currently have. I'm tired of them not obeying the laws. But that's another topic. |
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this town needs an enema! (a traffic enema that is)
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this tweaks me - being the 2nd car at a light, needing to make a right-turn, and yet there's no turn lane (west-bound on Main @ 7th is a classic). and usually the light is longer than... well, you know... or pulling into a left-turn lane that actually exists, but doesn't have an arrow to turn - so when it's busy, maybe 2 cars pass through, each cycle (and you know they're hoping a cop didn't see them). Beall/19th, Durston/7th, Mendenhall/Rouse, we could go on all day... I bike somewhat regularly, and after being hit by cars on three separate occasions, i don't ride on the streets, i'm a sidewalk-rider. if it's a ped-heavy area, i walk it. one day though, i'll get that ticket, and i'm going to take it to the judge and hope that reason and thought will prevail. and if it costs me $100 or whatever - at least i won't be dead. but that's a pretty sorry result, in anyone's book - face death, or pay $100. (how much is that ticket anyway? i'm just guessing) i nominate Main & 19th as the biggest cluster***k of an intersection that i've ever seen in my entire existence. period. i cannot understand how it could be so horribly arranged - perhaps it's a joke and there's guys in the engineering office (or wherever, sorry if not them) laughing hysterically every day around 4pm when traffic backs up for 5-10 blocks in any direction. |
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RE: this town needs an enema! (a traffic enema that is)
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(1 votes)
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| Agree that Main & 19th is a cluster***k. Here's an additional beef: Left turns are prohibited out of the BHS oval. A couple years ago (or was it longer?), they put in the much-needed light for the Main Street crossing between the Chinatown strip mall and BHS. If the crosswalk had been moved about 15 feet west, they could have also put a left turn arrow at the BHS oval exit. As it is now if one needs to go downtown after exiting BHS, one has to cross Main and do a turn-around in one of the potholed business parking lots (I'm sure Subway and the others there love that), go right at 15th - out to Durston for another right - back towards Main with another right, or go all the way to 19th for a turn-around towards town. Sheesh! | ||
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be patient
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You may or may not be aware that the city has hired a travel consultant to review our travel infrastructure and make recommendations on how to improve, grow, etc. I'm sure that timing of traffic signals is something they're looking into as well as other things. I find it ironic that you value efficiency and fuel economy yet bristle at the suggestion to ride a bike. If you live in the city, and aren't a builder or someone else who has to haul heavy equipment around, there aren't many legit excuses not to ride a bike. I understand the frustration people have when they see a cyclist disobeying the traffic laws. I feel the same way and I commute by bike almost every day, year-round. I also get irritated when motorists yell, honk, throw things, or swerve at me. I also get irritated by drivers who speed, don't use turn signals, and/or use the bike lanes as turning lanes (e.g. west bound on Oak the 7th ave intersection). The bad behavior goes both ways so let's not use it as a reason to keep bicycles off the street. |
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RE: be patient
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Didn't the city hire a travel consultant about two or three years ago, then went against their [the consultant's] advice about routing the one-way direction of Mendenhall and Babcock? I hope the city uses the information wisely this time around. I'd be happy to point out the problematic lights to them (I'd say about 95% of the lights along the main thoroughfares are out of sync). For the record - I love cycling. I ride whenever I can. I manage to log about 600 to 1000 miles per year. Does it replace the practical use of a vehicle for work, grocery shopping, etc? Of course not. My point was that I was a little shocked to discover that the commission seemed to cast a blind eye toward an obvious, yet easily fixed problem that would serve all citizens...motorists move thru each intersection without having to stop and cyclists wouldn't have to deal with a glut of traffic at each stop. see - everyone wins with this notion. Secondly, instead of acknowledging the obvious, the commission offered up an impractical, improbable solution. I hope over the course of the next couple of elections they are replaced with rational, reasonable folks truly interested in what is best for our community. There's no doubt that bicyclists have their place on the road and we all should get out of the car more, but that isn't realistic for most. |
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The Main St lights.......
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(1 votes)
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| I don't live in Bozeman any more but the Main St lights used to be timed. If you went 23 mph you could drive from one side of Bozeman to the other without stopping for a traffic light. Sorry to hear that "progress" has occured and this is no longer possible. As for riding bikes, I too have been hit by cars on two occations and won't ride unless there are bike lanes provided. Also bike riding in December in Bozeman sound like a real reasonable request.;-) | |
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RE: The Main St lights.......
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I've been in a vehicle that made all the lights on Main St once (weekend at 2 pm no less) but it was a couple years ago. I'm not sure whether the new lights have different timing or if the increased traffic now prevents people from hitting the sweet spot. As for riding in December, that's just the sort of thing I'm talking about. A thin fleece, wind proof jacket, work gloves, jeans, and a thin balaclava keeps me comfy for all my rides between 15F and -5F. No lie, no exaggeration. You generate pleny of heat as you pedal. Once they re-do Rouse, I'll have bike lanes for my entire 5 mile commute to work. I fill the tank in my vehicle once a month and I don't notice the traffic "problems" most seem so upset about. |
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Re re be patient
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I do remember something about that earlier consultant etc. I think the current project is an update to the earlier one. There's more info here http://www.rpa-hln.com/bozeman/bozemantransplan.htm. I was at the last public meeting and the project manager for the consultant (Peccia and Associates) said that he's happy to receive suggestions and concerns via email. So there is an opportunity to make your voice heard by someone who may be more influential than the folks on this forumn. Granted, that assumes the commission is responsive to the recommendations in the final report and I have to agree that the commission has been letting me down a bit lately. As for the practicality of using a bicycle for groceries etc, well, I'm an admitted zealot on that front so I won't harp on it too much longer. I will say that I feel most people don't WANT to commute by bike but that's all there is to it. The rest are just excuses by people who bought into "car culture" -hook, line, and sinker. Fine, complain about buying gas and be angry everytime you stop for a traffic light - at least others can check out your status symbol. I'll be enjoying the view, getting a workout, and saving $. There are many products available (studded tires, panniers/trailers, clothing) that make bicycling completely practical for just about any trip that anyone needs to do within city limits. Heck, Bozeman even has a magazine dedicated to this ideal http://www.practicalpedal.com/ |
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Poor Traffic Control
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| Thank you for bringing this up. I'm glad I'm not the only one who is annoyed by this. The fact that they are trying to push bike usage more is absolutely absurd to me. The bike use issue is a completely ridiculous and unrealistic utopian idea, especially in a place like this. I realize that there are a lot of people in this community that have a very anti-car viewpoint and that's fine for them. They can ride their bikes all they want. It doesn't really justify inconveniencing everyone else who doesn't follow your ideology. | |
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RE: Poor Traffic Control
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I don't believe for a second that the commission or Peccia are "pushing" bicycling. They made it quite clear at the last meeting that they are not doing so but that they do recognize that Bozemanites "are a hardy bunch" and that they should not discount the use of human powered transport just because of our climate. How is it that you feel using a bike is unrealistic? How does me riding my bike inconvenience you, particularly if I'm able to do so in a bike lane*? * As long as I'm obeying traffic laws - which I do. Those people who don't need to be educated and/or fined, as do irresponsible or inattentive motorists. |
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RE: RE: Poor Traffic Control
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So you don't believe the original poster that they are trying to encourage bike use by making the stop lights like that? Obviously, a person just saying it isn't undeniable proof, but it really isn't that much of a stretch. I never said that you riding a bike inconvenienced me. I'm saying that it's ridiculous for the commission to inconvenience car drivers with the current stop light system that's in place just to encourage riding bikes (if it is in fact true). Plus, it's annoying and arrogant to criticize others for not riding bikes just because it is convenient for you. Perhaps I'm wrong, but what I've gathered from your posts is that you have kind of a feeling of superiority about riding a bike vs. driving a car which is absurd. |
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RE: RE: RE: Poor Traffic Control
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No, I don't believe that anybody is purposely mis-timing traffic lights etc in some veiled attempt to promote bike use. I'm no conspiracy theorist. It seems much more likely that the timing is just not dialed in correctly, possibly due to some unanticipated changes in traffic patterns etc that occurred in the time since the new lights were installed. I think the comment the OP got from the commission member was a sarcastic and poor attempt at humor. Nothing more. The other problems mentioned are just a result of the typical lag experienced between the time it takes to fund and build new infrastructure and the time when the need to do so is recognized in a quickly growing community. As for the arrogance you percieve in my posts. I appologize for that. It's difficult to communicate intonations in writting. What you should be picking up is my sadness and desperation. I don't mean to criticize people for not riding but I do take it personally when people like "cowgirlmedic" say things like "That's all Bozeman needs-more cyclists". That's exactly what we DO need both here and across the country during this day and age of reliance on foreign oil and all the troubles associated with that. And when "dwainegf" sarcastically states "riding in December in Bozeman sound like a real reasonable request" - I'm not asking anyone to do that but I am saying that IT IS ENTIRELY reasonable to do so. I've been doing it here for almost 10 years. It also saddens me when people complain about things like traffic, pollution, and rising gas prices yet don't acknowledge that at least some relief from those things is available in the form of a bike. To just dismiss it entirely because of whatever excuse is given, when Bozeman is in fact extremely well suited to bike use, in my opinion smacks of vanity and stubborness. |
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RE: RE: RE: Poor Traffic Control
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I will reiterate that a member of the commission made the "forced bike riding" comment according to my friend a couple of years ago. I suspect that it was a tongue-in-cheek comment, but I think it was an underlying sentiment of the commission at the time. Also, unfortunately I drive way too much these days thru town and have yet to observe other drivers cruising thru red lights. I am not naive; I know it happens, but not as extensively as Uptown implies in "Traffic Lights lite". I will point out that the length of time that the yellow light is lit is too short for the posted speeds at several of the intersections. There are instances when I feel like I just make the light. If this is what Uptown is refering to, well then I guess I'm guilty, but I know the rest of you drivers out there will back me up when they throw me in jail, right? One more thing: I am far from anti-bike. In fact, I agree with Shane that more bikes with responsible riders on the road, and the infrastructure to support the notion would definitely be better for the world on about 5 different levels and I appreciate the fact that he appears to be involved with the effort...but well-timed traffic lights would be nice too. |
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Traffic Lights lite
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| The fact that the lights aren't timed very well is a minor annoyance. My complaint with the traffic lights is that when a light turns red, Bozemanites seem to think that is a signal that only 2 more cars can go through. Where are the police? We don't have a donut shop. | |
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RE: Traffic Lights lite
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| one thing i'm rather guilty of - treating red lights like a stop sign. some lights are way too long - turning left from 15th onto Main as an example. many many more that really could be set to turn to flashing, once rush-hour is over. | ||
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Lights, Camera, Action
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Driving in Bozeman is a full contact, combat sport. Swear it. The drivers I encountered today were all about making sure they got where they needed when they needed - everyone else be damned. I think that's a major part of the traffic control problem, personally. All the u-turning and running lights added to the fact that lights aren't timed, lanes don't line up (nothing like driving and realizing, suddenly, that you're not in ANY lane!) and the lack of turn lanes is enough to drive a person mad. Biking is great if you can do it. I'm not adventurous enough to go grocery shopping on a bike while 7 months pregnant with my toddler and two grade school aged children. In fact, I'm not really adventurous enough to ride ANYWHERE outside my neighborhood with the fam in tow. |
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Cycling vs. Traff-ick
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I'll admit, I'm a fairweather cyclist. I drive in the winter if I miss the bus. Oh wait.. the bus! We have buses! Ill-timed traffic lights do not promote cycling. Cycling is promoted by people who actually want to make a difference and feel better about their overall health in the long run, as long as we're not smucked in the bike lane by angry man in big pickup... |
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Light's
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Did you ever wonder why, at certain intersections downtown that the pedestrian signs haven't been operating properly? There's no answer but "they're being neglected". I was standing at the corner of S Black and Main waiting for the light to change, then I realized the bloody light wasn't working properly. Who check's on these thing's anyway? This has been happening since the new light's had been installed. We have already had people killed in a crosswalk, the limited liability for road construction would'nt play very well if an accident happened due to negligence. |
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RE: Lights
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You have to push the walk button or you don't get the walk light. That one took me a while too. Agree with the earlier post about the turn lanes at Main and Rouse. Also, if you cross Main there southbound, the issue of "which lane goes straight" is opposite of what you find if you make the loop back around to Main and Wallace northbound. At Rouse it's the right lane and on Wallace it's the left lane. Two blocks apart, go figure. |
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re: Shane
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Not that I feel the need to defend myself, but I just want to say that I am in fact pro bicycle use...SAFE bicycle use. I am just irritated by mostly students-who cross in front of me without even turning their head. It's like they are asking for it. Drive around the college for the afternoon and you'll see what I see. I was a seasonal UPS driver this year and I can't tell you how many times I almost ran into someone who wasn't paying attention. Luckily UPS trains to slow down at every intersection, or something horrible could have happened. I do believe that if one is able to ride back and forth to work, grocery store, etc on a bike-then great! It's healthy and great for our environment... But lets be realistic on that for a second- How many people who work in Bozeman actually LIVE in Bozeman? Most people I know live in Belgrade, Livingston and as far as Three Forks. |
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